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STOP Rev93NA FROM DOING SOMETHING STUPID

Started by Masher Manufacturing, April 30, 2017, 09:38:10 pm

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Masher Manufacturing

STOP Rev93NA FROM DOING SOMETHING STUPID

If someone has a way of contacting this guy off list have him read below. 

Read and pay attention to my posts in your original thread ..   http://www.racepa.com/community/index.php?topic=11440.msg160370#msg160370

Rev93NA

May 01, 2017, 07:26:30 am #1 Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 07:36:25 am by Rev93NA
Dude, relax, everything is fine. It took 2 weeks from first getting the wheels off because having my kid during the week really cuts in on my work time. Almost as much as extremely poorly written instruction manuals (I'm looking at you chilton manual and YouTube).

After removing the entire steering rack, and through that replacing all the power steering fluid as a bonus everything is done as far as control arms go. I even found a decent alignment shop nearby, which was the biggest hurdle.

Still not sure what you were so concerned with, with the shock and spring off the car, the only dangerous part is Jack stands on my gravel driveway, which I deal with all the time.

I still need to bleed the brakes and replace the rear rotors before autocross though.

I appreciate the concern, but I'm not sure it's warrented, this time.


Masher Manufacturing

The stupid comment was designed to attract attention, there is a chain of events in play here that will lead to serious injury if it isn't broken.

QuoteStill not sure what you were so concerned with, with the shock and spring off the car, the only dangerous part is Jack stands on my gravel driveway, which I deal with all the time.


Post 5 in the other thread clearly shows the spring and shock installed while you are trying to remove the lower control arm bolts, this is an out of sequence operation that will result in the lower arm / spring escaping violently.  Everything will be OK right up until the time that it isn't, in other words , there won't be a dramatic cinematic creaking of parts before it explodes. 

This isn't a front drive car with a spring / shock assembly that takes pressure off the lower control arm when the suspension is in full droop.

It's good that you are taking a run at building a car.  I did see on the GRM thread that the standard reply is penetrating oil, freeze spray, battery impact wrench or extractor sockets however none of these present a valid strategy.   This is somewhat of a bad mix as one does not have a way to vet other posters.

I'm trying not to pull rank but I do need establish where my information is coming from. I've been in and around the car business for 40+ years, have built lots of race cars and other sillyness.  Uninformed and willing to learn / find answers is far different than uninformed and not willing to listen to those that know.

Rev93NA

I understand. And I'm sorry if I sounded like I dick. I know I took the picture, but I couldn't see the shock being in the shot on my phone screen, so I was confused as to what you were talking about, my mistake.

My order of operations was remove wheel, caliper, rotor then the bottom bolt of the shock from the lower control arm, unloading it, then unbolting the top so the shock assembly just kinda hung there. Then I did a lot of working around it, with it not connected to the car. When I saw how i (thought) needed to twist everything I left the shock in place because I didn't want to take off the upper control arms to get it out if I didn't have to.

Someone looking at that picture wouldn't know that the shock assembly is just loose in there. Still not the best idea, but it's not putting force on anything, just being slightly in the way.


It eventually came completely out because getting the balljoint stud out was easy, but getting it back in wasn't.

When I had my first miata, I had a bit of an accident with the spring compressor when I was changing the shocks. I'm a bit more cautious around things now.

Learning these lessons on the drivers side, and having functional air from the get-go, the passengers was easy.

Masher Manufacturing

QuoteMy order of operations was remove wheel, caliper, rotor then the bottom bolt of the shock from the lower control arm, unloading it, then unbolting the top so the shock assembly just kinda hung there. Then I did a lot of working around it, with it not connected to the car. When I saw how i (thought) needed to twist everything I left the shock in place because I didn't want to take off the upper control arms to get it out if I didn't have to.


There are steps missing here. 

Remove the rotor dust shield to allow the lower control arm / ball joint to clear the shield. 

Loosen the lower ball joint nut a turn or two, hit side of spindle to jar the taper loose, leave the nut on.

The shock needs to be fully removed then a spring compressor installed in the center of the spring.  Compress the spring until there is a decent load on the compressor.  ( this is a judgement call )

Place a floor jack under the lower ball joint and raise it until the ball joint nut has just moved.  Now that the load is off the ball joint, remove the nut.

Lower the jack and let the lower control arm fold down.  If horizontal ( ride height )  is 0 degrees and vertical 90, the arm needs to be 45 + in order to extract the spring.  You may need to compress the spring further in order to get it out.  Given you have the lower arm bolts loose, the arm will fold down easily.   If the bolts were not loosened, the arm will remain at an angle and it would need pushed down.

Stock springs have a very low rate per inch compared to race springs so the spring needs to be very tall in it's unloaded state in order to achieve desired ride height.  Even with the suspension in full droop, there is significant load on the spring requiring a spring compressor to reduce height.

What I'm stating isn't a matter of opinion on how to do a job or some Twitter fight, it is absolute fact.    In the end it's your funeral, I've posted enough to prevent others from suffering a similar fate if they read this thread.

Masher Manufacturing

Having done some research I need to amend some of my original post.

Not knowing the year of the subject car, I'm using a 2005 Crown Vic as a basis because it has a steering rack not steering gear:

The lower control arm is aluminum not stamped steel like days gone by therefore a coil spring compressor can't be installed in the center of the spring. I'm also seeing the lower control arm rear mount has a 3 hole plate that comes along with the lower control arm rather then just removing a bolt like the front.    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3445056&cc=1430662&jsn=519

Looking up a front shock / spring assembly, it is set up like a MacPherson strut except it applies force directly to the lower control arm.  This assembly would constrain the spring unless the shock center nut is removed.    https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=8387116&cc=1430662&jsn=538

To remove the lower control arm, the upper shock center nut need to be in place to constrain the spring , only the lower shock bolt needs to be removed from the lower control arm.