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Pittrace VDA

Started by ericdc, October 21, 2017, 08:48:25 pm

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ericdc

Does anyone know if the VDA is being repaved this year or next? Any details?
Eric Coffman
16 Porsche Cayman GT4
17 Chevy Volt

scca-racerx

All of the following is unofficial and basically made up, according to me.

When they were done with the repave of the north track, pittrace was thinking about repaving the VDA.  I am guessing it depends on how much the new control tower is going to cost them.  I imagine it isn't a priority for them.

I know I would like some guardrails removed.   :P  Maybe some snow fence put up instead.  Sure is a heck of a lot cheaper to replace and much softer to hit.

I am just hoping the Stoudt's don't run out of money.
Joe Montuoro
2016 Subaru WRX



"IT COULD BE WORSE, IT COULD BE RAINING."
Young Frankenstien

AaronH

There is no set date for VDA repaving. It has been discussed and is a part of the future upgrades, but nothing has been scheduled as of now. If that changes I will let you know.
Aaron H.
Director Of Operations  - Pitt Race

ericdc

Quote from: scca-racerx on October 23, 2017, 11:01:24 am
I know I would like some guardrails removed.


That is basically why I am asking. After at least 3 cars have been destroyed in the last year, I am avoiding the VDA until it is repaved and not super slippery or the car killer guardrails are removed.

I'd rather trailer to mid state events to lower the risk until that happens.
Eric Coffman
16 Porsche Cayman GT4
17 Chevy Volt

GTI_Speed

I would just like to say we've had over 9000 autocross runs on the VDA over the past two years and are operating at over a 99.96% safety rating which is much safer than your morning commute. Our courses are designed well within the safety guidelines provided by the SCCA and we will be taking further steps in 2018 to make things even safer. Autocross is a form of motorsport and things can and will happen at any time, all we can do is try to mitigate as best as possible.
Alex A.

Steel Cities Region AutoX Chair
Current: 2016 Subaru WRX STI - 77 BS
History: 2008 VW GTI - 1 SMFT, 2003 BMW M3 - 77 STU

STCsolo.com    stcscca.com     NHSCC.com    GolfMKV.com     m3forum.net     iracing.com

Josh R.

October 24, 2017, 09:31:37 am #5 Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 04:20:14 pm by Josh R.
I'm not aware of any cars being "destroyed."

I've been going to autox's on the VDA for over 10 years now, and cars have ALWAYS hit whatever was over there. It used to be concrete barriers. Before the barriers, it was nothing and cars would go over the bank. At North Park, cars hit the bank/steps by the pool. At Misery Bay, cars slap off the walls in the speedway. At the Greensburg airport this year somebody slid 100 yds off the runway at 80 mph and just missed the woods. Point is, not many (any?) sites around here are free of obstacles. Drive within your ability or risk hitting something. I'd venture to guess PittRace would rather you trailer to Mid-State than rip out guardrails and replace them with something. It's the SCR that has skin in the game. And it sounds like the SCR Solo board has a plan to keep people out of the guardrails next year.

Problem is, as I've seen before, when this SCR Solo board (inevitably) gets burned out and quits and new blood takes over and some newer autox'ers start designing courses the mistakes of the past will be forgotten and guess what...repeated. Somebody will put a fast slalom along the guardrail and somebody will hit it.

Simply put, I don't think it's PittRace's responsibility.
'97 Integra GS-R - ITS/DSP

'16 Frontier - Tow/Family Duty

scca-racerx

Before this gets out of hand - nobody is accusing anybody for being unsafe.  I know the board and safety people try to make every course as safe as possible.  I thought the course on 10/1 was fantastic.  While we didn't have contact at the 10/15 event, I thought pointing cars toward paddock at speed and then released into the concrete bollards of the gas pumps were questionable.

Like Josh said, every autox area has hazards (I autocrossed around a mulch pile once).  You try to design them out with a better course.  There are people who will not ever come to steel cities because of low traction.

Once you are off the pavement at mid-state, you are now doing rally cross with runway lights to worry about.  That could make your day very unhappy.  As a guy who hit a timer in a brand new 50k car that wasn't mine - it is a gut wrenching experience.

Pick your venues carefully.  Always be nice to people who have car trailers as you might have to ask to borrow that for a tow home.  Try not to hit anything harder than a cone.

Eric, I would never ask to co-drive that Porsche due to the panic attack I would have piloting something that costs as much as a house.  I would tough out the panic attack and drive it anyway.   ;D  Almost killed myself in a vette a couple of times.  A Porsche will due just as well.
Joe Montuoro
2016 Subaru WRX



"IT COULD BE WORSE, IT COULD BE RAINING."
Young Frankenstien

spud_majic

"if you can't afford to write it off don't put yourself in a position where it is possible". I almost guarantee every car that has made contact with a solid object had traction control turned off and running a setup that can induce oversteer easily. Not saying don't do that but be prepared for the result that can occur.
Ron Williams
'12 subaru sti=#23
02 subaru wrx project. soon to be TTD/ESP
99 millenium lim mod kart-#23
Check out www.jsautodesigns.com and www.rocksteadytuning.com for parts and tuning needs
email me at [email protected]

ericdc

I know my own limitations and that I need maybe a bit more safety margin that others. I have had spins on my first run in my last 3 events. None were the least bit scary or risky as the combination of grip and clearance from barriers had me stopped well within reason. I had a spin at SCR earlier this year in the fast slalom that put me close enough to the right guardrail that it truly scared me.

As much as I know I would love doing track days and/or hillclimbs, it is outside my comfort zone due to the risks associated. This simple fact is why I stick with autocross.

Since I started autox in 2003 I have had 2 close calls, both on the VDA. The aforementioned spin this year and one in Justin Rothermel's super fast STI when I spun right.up.to the Mazda sign. I think that may have been the last time Justin let someone drive his car.  :o

I completely recognize the risk exists everywhere but when spongebob hit the dirt by the pool at NHSCC, the car still drove home. When Randy slid his Corvette into the grass at Cumberland, the car still drove home. Even hitting a runway light isn't going to ruin a car like collision with a guardrail. Those cars definitely didn't drive home.
Eric Coffman
16 Porsche Cayman GT4
17 Chevy Volt

RandyP

I've never had a problem at the VDA due to guardrails or slippyness.  My corvette was almost destroyed on the VDA this year due to an exhaust valve dropping during a slalom!  New engine arrives this week.

Mark Aubele

Quote from: RandyP on October 24, 2017, 07:14:19 pm
I've never had a problem at the VDA due to guardrails or slippyness.  My corvette was almost destroyed on the VDA this year due to an exhaust valve dropping during a slalom!  New engine arrives this week.


What did you do with the old one?  Sorry for the off topic question.
'64 Ford F100
'97 M3
'12 135i

RandyP

Quote from: Mark Aubele on October 24, 2017, 07:16:17 pm
Quote from: RandyP on October 24, 2017, 07:14:19 pm
I've never had a problem at the VDA due to guardrails or slippyness.  My corvette was almost destroyed on the VDA this year due to an exhaust valve dropping during a slalom!  New engine arrives this week.


What did you do with the old one?  Sorry for the off topic question.


Broken block.  Not much left to salvage.

Mark Aubele

'64 Ford F100
'97 M3
'12 135i

MrDirt

Quote from: ericdc on October 24, 2017, 03:21:28 pm
I completely recognize the risk exists everywhere but when spongebob hit the dirt by the pool at NHSCC, the car still drove home. When Randy slid his Corvette into the grass at Cumberland, the car still drove home. Even hitting a runway light isn't going to ruin a car like collision with a guardrail. Those cars definitely didn't drive home.


To be fair, of the three cars at SCR events you're talking about:
-One was trailered to/from the event regardless
-One did drive home
-One didn't

Chris K
427DS - '16 WRX

marka

Howdy,

I should probably just not post, but fuck it...

I've seen a car go into a fence at Nationals in Lincoln.  Where there's roughly nine billion acres of really grippy concrete.  Saying that the biggest site in the area is somehow unsafe because the asphalt is slightly less grippy than other surfaces and because there are guardrails at the edges is frankly ridiculous.

Josh said:
Quote
It's the SCR that has skin in the game. And it sounds like the SCR Solo board has a plan to keep people out of the guardrails next year.

Problem is, as I've seen before, when this SCR Solo board (inevitably) gets burned out and quits and new blood takes over and some newer autox'ers start designing courses the mistakes of the past will be forgotten and guess what...repeated. Somebody will put a fast slalom along the guardrail and somebody will hit it.

Simply put, I don't think it's PittRace's responsibility.


I can't put it much better than that.

I've personally approved at least one course there that had a friend put another friend's car into a concrete barrier.  The problem wasn't the barrier or the amount of grip.  The problem was the course and I was wrong.  There were other courses I was wrong on too, its just that (IIRC) it wasn't demonstrated quite so forcefully.

And that doesn't make contact / body damage acceptable.  Autox, by design, is supposed to have a very low level of risk.  That's not "no risk" (nothing is), but make no mistake...  Contact / body damage as a result of a normal mistake by a driver is not and should not be acceptable in autocross.  I have every expectation that all of the solo board understands that and will take appropriate steps, just like other solo boards have done in the past.

Mark

GTI_Speed

Who is this Mark guy talking about actual autocross and not about selling his autocross things?
Alex A.

Steel Cities Region AutoX Chair
Current: 2016 Subaru WRX STI - 77 BS
History: 2008 VW GTI - 1 SMFT, 2003 BMW M3 - 77 STU

STCsolo.com    stcscca.com     NHSCC.com    GolfMKV.com     m3forum.net     iracing.com

marka

Howdy,

Quote from: GTI_Speed on October 26, 2017, 01:07:14 pm
Who is this Mark guy talking about actual autocross and not about selling his autocross things?


Good point.

Eric should buy my Civic.  Then he can smash it into a barrier all he wants and not be out Porsche money.  :-)

Mark

a.moore

Pile hockey jerseys against the guard rail - problem solved!
- Andrew

Jakebonz

Quote from: a.moore on October 28, 2017, 11:25:49 am
Pile hockey jerseys against the guard rail - problem solved!


Do you have any idea how bad hockey equipment smells?
"He who shall be last, shall be sideways and smiling."
- Jezza 19:3

2014 Ford Mustang GT #10 FS
1999 Mazda Miata #10 ES
Event Photos

HRERACING

If anyone would like to take my position as safety steward, I would gladly give it to them. Problem is that nobody wants to take the risk of calling a course "safe"  I really wish we wouldn't be discussing this on here, rather this should be taken up amongst those interested in person and we should include Pittrace in that discussion. Every course I have approved fit way within the safety parameters of the rulebook/ I try to visualize every possible scenario that could happen and normally do fine, but I still learn something at every event. I don't like the guardrails either or the polished pavement, but that's the hand we are dealt. If someone doesn't like something they see, speak up. I have changed several courses due to suggestions and will continue to listen and analyze the best I can. If someone decides they don't like the course, they can always not run it, we don't force anyone to drive it.   rant over..
Trevor D Hill Sr.
17 GS 2017 VW GTI Autobahn
17 DS 2004 VW R32
2001 Porsche 996 TT
2003.5 Lotus Esprit V8 TT
1994 Porsche 968
1981 Porsche 924 Turbo
1975 + 1988 VW Scirocco(low-milage originals)
previously ....
CS porsche 944
DSP VW scirocco
FSP VW scirocco